Just curious - and do you have it fixed up for fly fishing?

I run a 26-foot Jone Brothers Cape Fisherman Lite Tackle edition. First of its kind on the West Coast and one of the first of its kind anywhere. Its a new model for them. She’s laid out specifically for fly fishing, meaning that almost all of the line tangling impediments around the deck have been eliminated or avoided. She’s fast and incredibly sea worthy. Unfortunately I tested this out on the 25th in nasty 6 to 8s. I never felt unsafe, and really the only spray we took was wind driven (and I mean DRIVEN). But then I moved pretty slowly at about 20 knots, too just to make sure.

I also had them install an 80-gallon circular live well, which is lighted and fills in about 9 minutes. And I have enough rod storage for about 12 conventional rods in rod holders around the leaning post and t-top and 12 9-foot fly rods along the gunnels. She’s easy to move around as well with no tight spots or steps to navigate when casting or hooked-up. Best part is that she’ll top out near 55 mph and I have 180 gallons of fuel, so a 200 mile round trip is very do-able in short time. I have photos posted on my Web site if you’d like to see her.

Scott, I have a 19 ft cc made by Kenner it has a modified V and a 115 Mercury. It is a great compromise boat as I use it in the local lakes chasing stripers as well as off shore. Last year we ran 25 miles out almost every weekend in the summer. Got in some ugly weather with the most notable being a 30knot wind and 8 ft seas at 7 seconds. The Clouserhead handled it well but it was a long ride back. WE’ve had it out 60 miles chasing albacore. I’m looking at buying a more substantial boat for offshore. Something with a deadrise above 18, yet still good on gas. This season I want to get dialed into the mako fishery and get more proficient at patty fishing. There has to be a science to pulling YT off the salad.

Scott sounds like you got a sweet ride. i’m sure you are going to burn up the tuns this year if the seiners don’t get them first. I think the Coronados are going to go off anytime now. I hope to see you out there.

Randy

Hi all,

I am getting into the boat market soon and have started scouring the internet looking at bay boats and smaller center consoles for socal. This past weekend I had the opportunity to take a ride in the Champion Bay Champ 21 at the Fred Hall show. I was very impressed with the speed and the ride (and even the price), but thats the first test I’ve done and I don’t have much to compare to. I have also been looking looking at the Skeeter ZX Bay boats, the Triton LTS, Everglades 243, Parker and a slew of others. Does anyone have any experience with these or similar?

Scott,
After I first came to this website I then went to the Jones Bros website. The boats look pretty nice and have everything I am looking for. Did you get a change to ride in the 20’ or 23’ hulls?

Thanks,
Jeff

jeff h - 15 March 2007 09:21 PM

Hi all,

I am getting into the boat market soon and have started scouring the internet looking at bay boats and smaller center consoles for socal. This past weekend I had the opportunity to take a ride in the Champion Bay Champ 21 at the Fred Hall show. I was very impressed with the speed and the ride (and even the price), but thats the first test I’ve done and I don’t have much to compare to. I have also been looking looking at the Skeeter ZX Bay boats, the Triton LTS, Everglades 243, Parker and a slew of others. Does anyone have any experience with these or similar?

Scott,
After I first came to this website I then went to the Jones Bros website. The boats look pretty nice and have everything I am looking for. Did you get a change to ride in the 20’ or 23’ hulls?

Thanks,
Jeff

Hey Jeff,

Before you make a decision, you should think very carefully about what you want to use the boat for: Will you be doing a lot of bay fishing? Some (or a lot of) freshwater? Stay near the coast? Or venture far offshore?

Randy Norris (see above) runs a 19’ Nitro Bay Boat offshore, as does Capt. Conway Bowman (Triton 240 LTS). I have ridden in Conway’s current boat, his previous boat (Parker 180), as well as Scott’s Jones Bros. I own an Edgewater 175CC. I would say that if you do not have a lot of experience running boats in the open ocean, you should take a ride in a bay boat offshore before you buy. Bay boats do not have a lot of freeboard, and some people do not feel comfortable in them offshore. That’s not to say that they can’t do it, it’s more of a mental factor.

I personally don’t have a problem with it, but I have a friend who told me that if I had bought a Whaler Montauk 17 he wouldn’t be fishing offshore with me, even though the Montauk is about as bulletproof/unsinkable a boat as you will find anywhere. He just feels uncomfortable in a low-freeboard boat offshore.

The Jones Bros, the Edgewaters, the Everglades, the offshore Tritons, larger Stripers, larger Triumphs, etc. will all do the job offshore and have lots of freeboard, but as freeboard (and size) goes up, fishing in lakes and bays becomes a little more of a pain. And if you want to use an electric, you wind up having to go to some pretty big motors to control the boat in wind. A 21’ bay boat would pretty much require a 24V system.

I would recommend that you also check into the Edgewaters. As I mentioned, I have an Edgewater 175cc, and they are great rough-water/coastal/offshore boats. I regularly take my 175CC 30 -60 miles offshore, and the 20, 23, and 24 footers are even better. Johnston Yacht Sales in Newport Beach is the SoCal dealer: http://www.johnstonyachtsales.com/

When you are sure you are going to buy a boat, be sure you take a test ride, and check out a similar hull in great detail (open the hatches, look under the covers, behind the dash, etc.). You will be surprized at the differences.

If you want to see more about my boat, go to our sister site: http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com There.‘s an article about how we wound up with the Edgewater, running cost and equipment performance logs, articles on boat setup, etc. etc.

Let us know how things turn out!

Hey Jeff,

I agree with John about taking a skiff into open water if you’re not used to it. Especially a Bay Boat design. As for the other Jones Brothers, yes I have ridden the 20 and the 23 and both are excellent boats and both run in very shallow water as well. The 20 will float in less than 16 inches easy, plus it has higher gunnels—not at all like a bay boat. Two of my best friends in North Carolina run those boats for charter out of Oregon Inlet and they love them and I have been in ultra shallow stuff with them and some serious slop with them. I couldn’t recommend a Jones Brothers more highly. Also they are not as expensive as you might think.

Having said that, as John said, you need to figure out what kind of fishing you really want to do and go from there. My boat was not purchased so that I could fish in the bays, I bought it so that people would feel safer when we ran 60 miles offshore. Can I fish the bay? Sure. Not as easily as if I were on a 16-foot Gordon Waterman though. Can you fish offshore in a bay boat? Sure. But not as safely as I can on my boat. Heck I have good guide friends who regularly take their skiffs across to the Bahamas. And I mean 16-foot flats skiffs across 50+ miles of open water. Its usually not the boat, its the skipper that causes problems.

Frankly what ever boat you choose, really look it over and check the details. How is it finished? Is it laid up with a chop gun or hand laid? How many pieces is the boat built in? Storage space. Fishing space. Think about how much blind room you have to manouver around the boat. By that I mean without looking, how easy is it to walk around the boat—are there steps or narrow passages, etc. This can be important if you have kids or older people on board and they need to move around while fishing or just having fun. If there’s room for fly rods, how are they stored, in a closed hatch or under gunnel? Look hard, but then realize that your first boat will be a learning experience.

Oh and don’t necessarily be afraid of wood in construction. Depending on how its covered, it could be just fine, but I wouldn’t touch it unless its HAND LAID UP. The fear is obviously rot in poorly sealed wood below deck. It’s not that its necessarily heavier or lighter or even stronger. Its cheaper to use wood and on a hand built boat (versus a production line model), I wouldn’t worry about it at all.

Lastly, check the hull design and the background of the builder, too. And disregard any reviews you see in magazine that have ads in them. They are always glowing reviews and they all run well and dry and blah blah blah. Trust me on this. I wrote them for several years and we weren’t allowed to piss off potential advertisers. Decide for yourself but use those reviews to provide you base information like weight, draft, etc. As for the builder, make sure its not simply an upscaled version of a smaller boat or, worse, an upscaled version of a freshwater lake boat. These don’t work. Simple dynamics and design rarely allows a simple enlargement or a the idea that a calm water boat will work in chop. Heck the 26-foot version of the Jones Brothers has been tested for the past two years and just went into production and the hull only resembles the smaller ones, but has some dramatic differences.

Now that we’ve probably scared the crap out of you… go look and test and look and test and look and test. AND BE CRITICAL. If the sales guy is giving you a hard time with all the questions—leave. There are many good boats out there.

Scott and John,

Thanks for all the info. There’s a lot to process there. As for using a bay boat offshore, I have a few reasons why I’m heading that direction. 1) Price. Though they may be more expensive than a skiff, they are usually a better price than an offshore style center console. 2) Casting stability. With an offshore style V the boat tends to rock and roll quite a bit more than a bay hull. The sacfifice on the other side is that the offshore style will provide a much better ride at speed, especially with a good chop on the water. 3) Space. Bay boats provide more space for me to move around than a boat with more freeboard. They do give up storage for gear, but in turn you get a nice open deck.

My plan for this boat is to use it to get to Catalina frequently and also to make trips down south to the Coronados and maybe even farther to chase some pelagics. I do not forsee any freshwater use. I agree that taking a small boat offshore is all mental.  I plan to take my time getting accustomed to the new boat and gradually push its limits as I get more and more comfortable. I am not really looking for a boat that I can push offshore right out of the box, like a mid-sized center console.

I spoke to Conway last weekend and really raves about the performace and fishability of his Triton LTS offshore. I think I’m going to finally book a trip with him this summer (I had to cancel last time) and I will realyl get a good chance then to evaluate my comfort with a shallow boat offshore.

Scott,
I assume that your friends out of Oregon Inlet are Brian and Sarah. I fished on Sarah’s Parker several years ago. I thought that was a pretty nice platform and for her to switch from the Parker is really saying something about Jones Bros.

Thanks a lot guys,
Jeff

Did you ask Conway if he is still selling his 240 LTS? That might be a good choice for you. It’s in very good shape. I keep forgetting to ask him if it’s still for sale.

Also, PM Randy or send him an e-mail. He has a bay boat, and is now looking for more of an offshore boat. It might be useful to get that perspective. Not trying to talk you out of the bay boat, just want to make sure you get a good picture of what you’ll be getting into.

It’s been said that every boat is a compromise!

Jeff, I run to Catalina all the time with my bay boat. The ride back isn’t dangerous, just uncomfortable at times. I also had installed a 2000 GPH bilge just in case. Nothing like getting water out of your boat fast. When that puppy goes off it looks like I a fire boat. John’s boat is totally cool. I’m looking for a more V bottomed boat to handle offsore swells well. The bay boat handles some pretty knarly stuff last year and it is great in the local lakes. This year I want to extend my range and the bay boat seems a little limited. I ran into a guy a Silverwood in a 22ft Rabolo who had yet to take it out the breakwater. It’s just a mental thing sometimes. I promised to buddy boat with him to get him started. The bay boat is perfect for running to the Coronados and the near banks. Howver, soon you’ll be eyeing the longer banks, which are possible on some days, but you just have to be more careful. The V hul is a big factor. It reduces the hull slap and makes the trip less damaging on your back. 12 hours in a non V hull and you’ll think twice about taking that run again. Tell me when you get your boat and we can buddy boat to Cat to get you started. In fact I’ll be running to Cat soon for a shot at WSB.

Randy

Thanks Randy! I am starting to have second thoughts about a traditional bay boat. The trial on the Champion was quite a bit unerving with the lack of freedoard. I will not be buying until next year so I have a lot of time to check things out and find the boat will suit exactly what I want to do. Another thing I was thinking about with the bay boat is that a bay boat may substantially reduce my days on the water. I work a lot so I am looking to get on the water at every available opportunity but if theres much of a chop on the water I may miss a lot of days because the bay boat isn’t capable of safely/comfortably handing the conditions.

There’s a lot of boats out there and a lot of options to consider!

Jeff

jeff, shoot me a line and you can jump on board the clouserhead before I get the new boat and then take a ride in the new boat and compare the difference between the two. As soon as the temps go up I’ll be out most every weekend. Hey, also a bunch of us are planning a “day at the Bay” fly fishing. A bunch of guys from LA and south are going to get together in May for a day of chasing bonefish. I’ll post the dates when it is finalized.

Randy